Shadowdance 0027: Left vs. Right Hand Path
Shows February 16th, 2009
Michelle and Chris wring time from their schedules to take on the oft requested topic of the Left Hand Path vs. the Right Hand Path. They discuss the history of the terms, how they have changed over time, and what they mean to use today.
Links of Interest:
- Wikipedia entry on the Paths
- http://www.swamij.com/tantra.htm
- http://apodion.com/vad/article.php?id=20&aid=157
- http://www.sacredsexuality.us/history/index.html
-
http://www.dpjs.co.uk/lefthandpath.html (this one’s a little all over the place, but it gives a nice, short, overview of how the phrase “Left Hand Path” entered the west)
- Demons of the Flesh: The Complete Guide to Left-Hand Path Sex Magic by Nikolas and Zeena Schreck
- The Yoga of Power: Tantra, Shakti, and the Secret Way by Julius Evola,
- The Serpent Power: The Secrets of Tantric and Shaktic Yoga by Arthur Avalon (Sir John Woodroffe).
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February 19th, 2009 at 6:10 am
This is the episode I’ve been waiting for. Although I consider myself LHP I’ve been researching it for the past two years to make sure I understand it as best I can. I can’t wait to hear the discussion on this topic.
February 22nd, 2009 at 12:17 am
I had a friend who grew up in Cameroon, and she mentioned that if you stick your left hand into the food pot they’ll throw out the entire thing.
She didn’t mention shitting, but that men at least would use their left hands to aim/clean up when they were pissing.
February 22nd, 2009 at 1:13 am
Great podcast!
Just a thought that occurred to me during the discussion: seems like an extreme LHP or RHP view of spirituality has some flaws. Maybe that’s because they both seem to arbitrarily limit the number of agents in the so-called spiritual relationship?
Both paths describe the relationship as between one You and one Divinity. LHP values You to a higher degree than the RHP, which values the Divinity to a higher degree. Both may be eminent, but only one is preeminent.
But when you do magic, your magic effects more than those two: the rest of the gods and humans that inhabit our shared world also have to deal with the outcome of your working. When I evoke Dionysus in my apartment building, it’s dickish to assume that the only agents in the relationship are Dionysus and myself, since my fellow apartment dwellers have to deal with all the chanting and banging.
So perhaps neither view really works in a world like ours, with untold numbers of objectively real beings sharing the same space. There’s certainly more than one You, and many of us feel strongly that there’s more than one Divine as well. Maybe we need a path or set of paths that reflect that reality.
(Side note: yes, it’s easy to pick on dichotomies. I write the above at the risk of simply regurgitating the conclusions that you both seem to have drawn…hopefully someone will find it interesting.)
February 25th, 2009 at 4:15 pm
Thx –as always, a really good informative show!
February 26th, 2009 at 7:09 pm
I was recognized Ochossi in ‘98 in my spirtual path with the orisha. It was the culmanation of so many of my beliefs, personal developements, talents and understanding from my first thoughts on spirituality. though I work with/through many different Orisha, my main focus is and always be the study of Ochossi.
With that — Oshossi is described the left handed magician. Since he is the archetype of Hunting, Justice, and path-finding. His children usually have a high moral thought process, but as is fond to say with in me and mine, “I am not my father I am my father’s son.” Through my initial basic understanding of what Left-handed magic is, I floundered.
I came to realize through diferent patake (myths) that Oshossi is blind justice. He does not judge, but he does gather the information to inform. And i believe to strike down those who are found to be wrong takes the left hand magic mind.
Of course this is all very simplistic laid out but I thought I’d share. Thank you for the Information. I enjoyed it much.
March 5th, 2009 at 3:36 pm
What’s the sound of the one hand clap?
- Left Hand Path: a well-deserved slap to the face.
- Right Hand Path: a parthenogenetically transmitted disease.
But seriously…
Over the past year, I’ve been studying Native American spirituality (from actual natives with authorization, not New Age shamans).
In the Lakhota language, there is no real equivalent to the first person singular: “me,” “I,” or “my.” You can note this by the tendency that rose up in the early 20th century to portray natives as speaking in about themselves in the third person singular. This is because they didn’t really have a linguistic equivalent of the first person singular. Instead, they had the first person plural, “our.” This was the primary mode of discourse that led most decision-making processes, whether individual or collective.
Michelle mentioned that in Right Hand Path, it’s “Thy Will be done,” and in Left Hand Path, it’s “My Will be done.” Well, in some native cultures, it’s “Our Will be done.” These cultures demand respect both for the individual as well as the collective. Everyone and everything is working together in these cultures, whether they are fundamental nature spirits, ancestral spirits, future generations’ spirits, or present day living people.
In these cultures, the more individualized the consequences of an action are, the more governed by the individual the Will to do it is. The more collective the consequences of an action are, the more governed by the spirits or the tribe the Will to do it is.
The key thing about Right and Left Hand Paths is that they both are statements of absolutes (as stated in this podcast). Few, if anyone, in the history of Earth have ever been *fully* Left or Right Hand Path. Instead, I see this duality as just another expression of “putting ourselves in boxes” as Michelle puts it.
Yet in many Native American cultures, there are often no good or evil spirits per se. There are just spirits who make wiser choices than others (Grandfather Stone) and some who are trickster fools (Coyote or Iktomi [Spider]). In fact many translations of original Native American stories, spirituality, and culture were made by white men with a readership who could not understand the subject matter without these dualistic distinctions.
Likewise, I think if you go east of Persia (and Zoroastrian-descended systems), many traditions do not hold much value to the duality that the Left and Right Hand Paths represent. Many traditions instead talk about or simply apply the “Middle Way” (or Zhong yong in Confucianism I believe).
If I had to label myself, I think I’d lean to a Discordian answer, just to highlight the absurdity of the dualism. I’d call myself, “Hand Shake Path.” Either:
1) “As Above” shakes hands with “So Below” in a mutual agreement; or
2) It’s what happens when you take the left hand, take the right hand, and put them both in a blender to make a Hand Shake.
As the Temple of Apollo at Delphi read on its frieze: “Nothing in Excess.” Or you can take my modern spin on it: “Moderation in Moderation.”
March 13th, 2009 at 8:31 am
What about the tree of life…?
He put the sinful on his left beneath Geburah and Binah.
He put the faithful on his right beneath Chochmah, Chesed and Netzach.
March 13th, 2009 at 9:00 am
You guys are amasing. I love listening to you!
I think you should should do a terminology lesson next. I’ll be here ready with a friend and some apple sours!
March 16th, 2009 at 4:06 pm
Gray Phoenix said: “He put the sinful on his left beneath Geburah and Binah. He put the faithful on his right beneath Chochmah, Chesed and Netzach.”
‘He’ is right-handed. ‘She’ is the left.
June 17th, 2009 at 5:42 am
I’m quoting the Christian bible which is full of qblh symbolism.
he put sinful beneath his left hand and he put the righteous by his right hand.
also.. he giveth with his right hand and he taketh away with his left.
but look at how this relates to the qblh. The bible won’t accept that part of god is female like the Qabalah does so he still says he.
March 2nd, 2010 at 4:06 pm
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